Perhaps the most famous banjo player in the world, Flake dedicated his new album "My Heart of Bluegrass" to his late musical heroes Tony Rice and Chick Coria.

This is fresh air. This is Trigros. Our guest today is Bella Fleck, the banjo player. He talked with our producer Sam Briger. This is Sam.

SAM BRIGER, BYLINE: It is not easy to know how many Grammys Bella Flake has won. Wikipedia says it is 14. Some articles say it is 16. It is 15 on his own website. At some point, this is not important. Regardless of the number, Bela Fleck is by far the most famous and famous banjo player on earth. He has a new instrumental album, which is his first bluegrass album in 20 years. It is called "My Heart of Bluegrass" and it is dedicated to the two musical heroes and collaborators who died last year, the pianist Chick Corea and the singer and guitarist Tony Rice.

Over the years, Bela Fleck has worked with various groups to record more than 50 of his own albums, including his main band Bela Fleck and Flecktones, New Grass Revival and his wife Abigail Washburn, who is also an excellent banjo player Family. At the end of last month, I had a conversation with Bella Fleck in his home studio, and he brought his banjo very kindly. Before we start the conversation, let's listen to the main theme of "My Heart of Bluegrass". This is "vertigo".

(The soundtrack of Bella Fleck's "Dizziness")

BRIGER: That is "Vertigo" from Bela Fleck's new album "My Bluegrass Heart". Bella Fleck, welcome to the fresh air.

BELA FLECK: Oh, it's a pleasure to be here. Thank you for your hospitality.

BRIGER: Do you remember when you were hit by a banjo for the first time?

Flake: Yes. My first banjo experience was "Beverly Countryman". I was about 5 years old, maybe younger, when I was at my grandparents' house in Queens. They let us watch TV, and then "Beverly Countryman". There is also the sound of Earl Scruggs' banjo, which has turned many of us into banjo players-it's that kind of sound, you know? He has the power to turn on the switch to an inactive banjo player. Once you hear him play, you are like a zombie looking for a banjo and trying to figure out how to play it.

But yes, that's it. I don't know what it is. I am a kid in New York City. I have nothing to do with bluegrass music or country music, and really, I am not really interested in its deep-rooted, folk side. It was just the sound of the banjo. I mean, holy cow. Earl Scruggs is such a force, and it is-unpretentious. It also has incredible craftsmanship. I always thought he was a high-tech primitive man.

BRIGER: So Earl Scruggs and "Beverly Hillbillies" are your Beatles in "The Ed Sullivan Show".

Flake: Yes. I mean, the Beatles also had a big impact on me. As a New Yorker-although I have always felt like an outsider to Bluegrass, just like the real Bluegrass, that's why I want to move to Kentucky, why I want to work with Tony Rice, Sam Bush and Jerry · People like Douglas play with people from there. I want to be accepted by some of them as a Yankee banjo player. This is not the easiest thing.

Brig: Yes. The first time I heard the banjo, or at least realized that I was listening to the banjo in a comedy album by Steve Martin, he said that it is impossible to be sad when playing the banjo, even if you listen to sad songs I also feel happy. He said that if Nixon had a banjo, it would save him.

BRIGER: But I know some people have good taste in music, but for some reason they just can't stand the banjo. You must have reflected on this over the years and why it is so. Do you think this is the real sound of the instrument or some kind of cultural stigma?

Flake: Well, I agree with you. First of all, I think some banjo people just tend to like the banjo, or when they hear it, it opens up something about them. Whether they learn to play it or not, it turns on something—you know, dopamine or something. Do you like it, do you know? Then some people just-they just hate its guts. It's like-I think some of them, as you suggested, some of them, are because all, you know, "save" the movie or "hee hee". They think this is stupid.

You know, they don't know the real history of musical instruments. They didn't really understand that it came from Africa, it was brought by slaves, it played a role in the early days of jazz, and there was a banjo orchestra in the late 1800s. Before us, you know, before there was a guitar in our continent, it was a guitar. So you know, part of it is ignorance, and part of it may be born with it. Just like the part I opened, something closes them.

BRIGER: Do you feel that at some point in your life you have to be an ambassador for the banjo, you have to prove what a great instrument it is and how versatile it can be?

Flake: Yes, there is a little lack on my shoulders, which is much more than people think. I think I-you can say that I benefited from it because when I play things like classical music or I play with people like Chick Corea, they don't want to hear the banjo or orchestra, you know, concerto , For example, they were surprised. They don't expect it to be good. They expected the situation to be terrible. So you know, if-so I don't have to be so good for them to change their views.

BRIGER: (Laughter) You just need to be better than their opinion?

Flake: Yes, I just don't have to-I just can't suck. But if I, you know, decent, you know-I mean, I won't pretend, you know, the level of jazz musicians we have in the world. But you know, I'm a bit like poker. I tried my best, but people were surprised. You know, I think what I do best is to be myself. You know, there is a composite material that combines all the different things I like. This is the most honest, and that is-yes, like I said, I think this is my best. Bluegrass is its core, even though I am not from it. I am an outsider in that world.

BRIGER: So you said that you have dedicated this album to your two musical friends who died last year, Chick Corea and Tony Rice. We will discuss Chick Corea later. But in the liner notes, you said that because of Tony Rice, you have not recorded a bluegrass album in 20 years. For those who don't know who Tony Rice is, he is a guitarist and singer, and his influence on bluegrass music is a bit like Charlie Parker's influence on jazz. Like, in bluegrass music, there are periods before Tony Rice and after Tony Rice. But he hasn't sang for a long time. He has difficulty vocalizing and he did not play because of arthritis. So why didn't Tony Rice let you record a bluegrass album?

Flake: One of the amazing things about Tony Rice is his rhythm playing, especially for banjo players. Like, if Tony Rice plays the guitar, you can play 20% or even 30% better than the rest of your life. So I am addicted to that. And now, once you put Tony Rice and Sam Bush together, suddenly you have the rhythm part of God.

BRIGER: Okay, let's listen to the lesson you played with Tony Rice. This is Tony Rice's 1984 album "Cold On the Shoulder", which is the main track. This is a song by Gordon Lightfoot. Let us hear some of your views. We can hear Bella Fleck's voice. Sam Bush is also playing this. Really, Bella?

BRIGER: Okay, let's listen to this.

(The original sound of the song, "Cold on the Shoulders")

TONY RICE: (singing) All you need is time. All you need is time, time, time to bend it. Give it a try. Don't be rude. Test it and I will return it to you right away. The shoulders are cold, you know we are getting old day by day. Kick it. Take it to town. Try to define how you feel inside. You better be strong. Your love belongs to us. The shoulders are cold, you know we are getting old day by day. All we need is trust. All i need is...

BRIGER: That was the song "Cold On The Shoulder" from Tony Rice's 1984 album of the same name. The banjo in that album is my guest, Bella Flake.

Bella, let us talk about your early years. You grew up in New York City. Can you tell us something about your family and your neighbors?

Flake: Of course. I grew up on 100th Street and West End Avenue. This is a 3 1/2 room apartment. I think it costs $120 per month. My mother is a teacher-elementary school, kindergarten. Yes, that's it. My grandparents live-Jewish and live in Queens. My grandfather has a car wash shop.

BRIGER: Many people think that you have Hungarian ancestry because of your name, but your name is Bela because your father named you after the composer Bela Bartok. Is your father a musician?

Flake: Yes, my father—well, I want to say that he is someone who wants to be—he wants to be an opera actor, and I think he studied in Europe. But it didn't work for him, he eventually became-a scholar and-a dead language-Norwegian, and so on-a university professor.

BRIGER: But you didn't know he grew up, did you?

Flake: Exactly. I don't know my father. I never even met him until I was in my 40s. He and my mother broke up between my 1 and 2 years old. I also have an older brother, so-he is one year older than me. And-but in any case, my father named us both after the composer. I finally got some classic influences from my stepfather. He is a good man named Joe Palladino. He plays the cello, so I often go to our house on Sundays, you know, hear classical string quartet music in our apartment. So-yes, but this is the story.

BRIGER: Is Bela a difficult name?

Flake: Bella got better. I mean, this is not...

Flake: It wasn't great at first. But over time-as life goes on, I kind of like to have a name that is different from others. Most people don't know how-I mean, if you tell them how to say, they can say it, but they don't-if you-if they read it, they will call me Bella. Many people call me Bella. I really don't like that. But Bella is cool.

BRIGER: So I think your grandfather bought you your first banjo. How old were you then?

Flake: I am 15 years old. I have been playing some guitars-a kind of hacker guitar. I like it, but I am not as irritated as they say. And—but he knows I like guitar. So I went to Peekskill, New York, where he lived in those years and took the train to the north of the city for about an hour. When I got there—it was the weekend before I went to high school—he was holding this banjo. He bought it at a second-hand auction—just a cheap thug banjo. He said, here, I know you like guitar. Maybe you will like this. He gave it to me, and I didn't say bluntly the fact that I fell in love with the banjo, because on the one hand, I don't think anyone can really play it. Judging from what I have heard, it must be impossible.

So all of a sudden, he handed me what I've always wanted in my life and put it in my hands-hey, maybe you will like this. I was shocked. I can't believe it, I have been trying to play, but I still can't tune it. But that Sunday, when we took the train back to the city, we met a man on the train. He said, is it Wuxian? I say yes. He said, do you know how to adjust it? I said no. He adjusted it for me and then gave me the first banjo class. The next day, I started high school at the Music and Art High School. You know, this is the "Fame" school.

BRIGER: It sounds like you have had a series of different teachers over the years. I just want to know, did you give up everything when you really invested in it? For example, did you suffer from your childhood homework?

Flake: Yes. Well, my opinion on guitar is, you know, sometimes you have a child, and they seem to be interested in something. Then you-sometimes you have a child who is excited about something. The guitar didn't excite me. But when I got the banjo, I was irritated. I will not put it down. I just-yes, this is the most important thing in my life. Maybe I have been looking for something, you know, to fill in some deficiencies or some, you know, self-doubt or abandonment. who knows? But no matter what it is, I poured everything on that instrument.

And, you know, in just a few years—just two or three years—I studied with the great Tony Trischka, you know, he is one of the greatest banjo players of all time. Fortunately for me, he lives in the New York area. People will say-we will go to parties, we will play together. People will say that when I close my eyes, I can’t tell which Tony is, you know? At the time, I thought it was an incredible compliment, and in terms of speed, I, you know, was good at banjos. But at some point, I realized that there was already a Tony Trischka, not me. So I have to find my own way.

Around that time, I heard Chick Corea and Return To Forever performing at the Beacon Theatre, only a few blocks away from where we live in the 70s, and my heart broke. That was when I went home after that concert and started trying to draw the fingerboard and trying to figure out how I played the notes played by Chick Corea, Stanley Clarke and Al Di Meola on their instruments, I-it suddenly dawned on me Body, they are all on my banjo. I just need to find them.

Brig: Our guest is Bella Flake. We will come back after a short break. This is fresh air.

(The soundtrack of "Slippery EEL FT. BILLY STRONGS and CHRIS THILE" by BELA FLECK)

Brig: This is fresh air. If you just joined us, our guest is Bela Fleck, he has a new album, this is his first bluegrass album in more than 20 years. It is called "My Heart of Bluegrass".

As we said, you dedicated your new album to two people, Tony Rice and Chick Corea, who both passed away last year. They are important musical figures in your life. Let's talk about Chick Corea. You set up Chick Corea's fan banner early in your career. In your first album in 1979, you covered his famous song "Spain". And finally, you and him have a duo. You recorded some albums. You have-you are on tour. How did this cooperation come about?

FLECK: First of all, I have to say that I heard "Spain" in the high school jazz appreciation class. It shocked me, just as Earl Scruggs shocked me, as it was imprinted in my consciousness. I thought, wow, I want that. I don't know what it is, but I want that. This is his keyboard solo "Spain". It shocked me. As the years go by, I will meet him from time to time. I remember when I made the "Drive" album, my first bluegrass album, and when he was playing in Nashville, I managed to hand it to him in the background. I still remember writing him a letter-past, past, past-maybe after I played for a few years. He actually wrote me back. Chick Corea will write back to fans who wrote to him in the late 1970s (laughter)—it is unbelievable that he would do this.

After a while, Flecktones, we did a great job. We played at the Jacksonville Jazz Festival. Our tour bus stopped in front of a hotel. Then I ran in. When I came back and jumped back to the tour bus, Chick Corea was standing there. I said, girl, what are you doing on our bus? He said, Bella, what are you doing on our bus? Our bus has stopped, so has his. And we are really not very familiar. But I plucked up the courage to ask him if one day he would play for me on the track. He said, yes, it surprised me. He continued to play-in fact, I think these are three pieces. One year I played at the Newport Jazz Festival. Who came to me, but Ted Kurand was Cheek’s booking agent. He said, oh, Chick is considering being a duo next year. And he—you are on his shortlist. Are you interested in doing anything with him? I thought, what? Are you joking? Would anyone reject this? Register for me. I'm ready, do you know? I am happy to do so. That really is a dream come true.

Then after the pandemic started, I received a call from Xiaoji. He said, hey, I'm bored. Let's do something. So we started to do some pandemic recordings back and forth. He will send me a tune and play a tune. I can play some banjos. Otherwise I will make a track. I will send it to him. He will give me an impromptu performance and I will play it. I will give him an impromptu performance. So, you know, we have a lot of things in our cans, and we hope they will come out one day. This is actually a new perspective for our duo. Therefore, nothing can replace Chick Corea in my life. You know, this is a loss for me. No one will do this to me anymore. But hey, I can not only play with that guy, but also become my good friend.

BRIGER: What is it like to play with Chick Corea? From live albums, it sounds like you sometimes feel scared.

Flake: Yes. Yes. This is scary, because, you know, he is Chick Corea.

Flake: And he will only do things that he thinks are impossible. I will go there in a few days, you know, I will practice many things for this song. Then when we get on the stage, I will do these things. He is leaving, oh yes. Well, this is pretty cool.

Flake: But what will happen is that I will do those things. He will go, oh, will he? Well, if you can do it, then I can do it too. It's like making a swarm of bees buzz. He will enter a super-light engine. I can't be with him. So it is-you know, until one day I started to think, maybe the purpose of my playing with Chick Corea is to inspire new things in Chick Corea, not to let me play, you know? Now, he did inspire new things for me in an instant. Every moment, I have to jump up, do something I have never done before, try to stay with him. But what he would do after I showed him the banjo skills, he would do it in an incredible way. And it's a brand new Chick Corea performance, you know, maybe no one else will make him angry. So I am proud to stimulate the sleeping giant.

BRIGER: Well, it sounds great to be together. Let us listen to some of them. This is a track from the album "The Enchantment". I'm not sure if I can pronounce the name of this song correctly. It is Joban Dna Noopia, which is a very interesting title for word confusion fans. Let us listen to some of them.

(The original soundtrack of "JOBAN DNA NOPIA" by BELA FLECK and CHICK COREA)

BRIGER: Those are my guests Bela Fleck and Chick Corea from their album "The Enchantment". We need to rest here. Even more after a break. This is fresh air.

(The original soundtrack of "JOBAN DNA NOPIA" by BELA FLECK and CHICK COREA)

Brig: This is fresh air. If you have just joined us, our guest is banjo player Bela Fleck. He has a new album, which is his first bluegrass music album in 20 years. It is called "My Heart of Bluegrass".

So as we said before, your father left your family before you really knew him, and you have no contact with him. But you said you did see him again when you were in your 40s. Is it easy to track him down?

Flake: My banjo teacher, Tony Trischka, was on a duo tour with Tony Trischka. We passed by Syracuse and he mentioned him, you know, he was a little sad. That year, his father died in Syracuse. He said, hey, what happened to your father? You know-I started to explain to him. He said, um, where does he live? I said he was somewhere in the DC area. He said, well, we are going to Washington, and we are going to play there the next day. Then he said, do you want to find him? Tony, he actually motivated me to do it, you know? I don't know if I would still have courage without him. But I said yes.

We found an address, and then we went to his residence. he is not here. We asked the neighbors. He said, oh yes, he teaches at the University of Maryland. So we drove to the university. We asked him where to teach and found a class. I looked at the window of the class he was teaching. He is a professor and he is there. I have never seen him before? This is a crazy day. All the students were in the last row to hand in their papers. I went to the end of the line and walked to him and said, hi, this is Bella.

Brig: Wow. What is his reaction?

Flake: Oh, well, this is a surprise. He is very formal. Then he said, well, if it's a quarrel, I think it's better not to contact, but now it looks like you are all grown up (laughs). He agreed with us to meet-you know, we will meet next time I come to town. He wants a hint. This is what happened. So I got to know him a little bit, and after spending some time with him, he also went to watch some shows.

BRIGER: Does he regret leaving? or...

Flake: One thing he said, you know, I don't think I am a good person or a similar person. I said, look; you don’t--I don't--you don't have to feel that way, do you know? I don't seem to forgive him. I just-I'm not really there. Just want to know-you know, it's kind of like you want to know who Darth Vader is. He has too much power in my life because I don't know who he is. That feeling-that feeling is very complicated, I want to turn him into a real person. This is why I want to see him. We don't have to suddenly become good friends. You know, since then we have established a friendly enough relationship-a formal friendly type. But he didn't suddenly become my father.

BRIGER: You have a close relationship with your stepfather.

Flake: Yes. My stepfather, Joe Paladino (Joe Paladino) is my true father in every respect, except for physiology. But at least the mystery is solved. I know who he is. He knows who I am. And there are some contacts. This just eliminated a lot of inflammation for me.

BRIGER: When you look through the window of that classroom, does it shock you? Do you think that is me 20 years from now? Or like...

Flake: I remember looking at him, seeing his ears, and then walking, it was my ears. You know, I saw that ear. Then when I went on the line to see him, I looked at his hand. Like, that is my thumb. I am used to looking at my thumb because I play the banjo with my thumb. It's on another person. It's more like-for example, for some reason, it looks more like my thumb than my brother's thumb. These are the things I felt right at the time. As you can imagine, this is a very exciting time. But you know, it happened.

BRIGER: COVID has really brought the life of a touring musician to a halt, but I just want to know whether COVID has caused you to reassess your life and this family-work balance, and whether you just reconsider your desire to be one. Musicians after COVID. or...

Flake: Yes. I mean, I think what I discovered during the COVID is that if I don't work in music and don't have time to participate in music, I will become a little crazy. And it-you know, there is a temptation to think that you can put it aside, you know, spending time enjoying time with your family, this is not the main driving force for who you are. But you know, I found out that it actually is, if I don't have a certain amount of time to play the banjo or make music, I won't be very happy.

So I was able to do this. You know, I can go downstairs. Downstairs in my studio, where I am now, I have, you know, work on all the rough tracks from "My Heart of Bluegrass", so I can go downstairs and play-you know, with Billy Strings, Chris Thile, Sam Bush and Jerry Douglas and all these cats, you know, on speakers. Or I can continue working, you know, we are working on the Chick Corea duo-hang out with Chick and call him. Hey, what do you think of this?

So I have all these things, you know, in a jar that needs to be done. So I spent a lot of time downstairs. The main loss is that I don't play much. The hardest thing about coming back is, you know, it’s been almost a few years, I think it’s not that long, but I didn’t play much at my age for a year and a half. Now I’m 63 years old, it’s hard to come back. So I really had to go all out to get my ribs back to where I wanted them to go on tour.

Brig: Well, I want to ask you this. As you said, you are 63 years old. And the way you play the banjo seems to be very demanding on your physical fitness. It's like, your fingers are moving. You must be very precise. As we age, this becomes more difficult. I just want to know, forward projection, for example, how do you imagine your relationship with the banjo will change. It's like, if you-if at some point you can no longer play those ultra-fast technical songs, will you continue to play but focus on slower things or just focus on melody things? For example, have you ever thought about so much?

Flake: Yes, I have thought a lot, and I have started to try to make the necessary adjustments. I remember for many years, Bill Monroe (Bill Monroe) as he got older, you know, as he got older, he insisted on singing songs in the original tune he sang when he was young. Sometimes it's hard to hear (laughs). I mean, I like Bill Monroe, but I don't like seeing him work hard to sing these songs. So I have been thinking, if I am really smart, as I grow older, I will create music that suits my abilities. Maybe I will gain some advantages from the games of these years, but they may not be as fast or as complicated as I can play. So when I think of the banjo, I am trying to move in this way, and I am moving to something more idiomatic. I want them to be simple and natural. I don't want to do the impossible all the time. This used to be my business. If I did not do something that seemed almost irreversible, I would not be satisfied. This is how I continue to improve.

I remember talking to Bobby McFerrin once, and he said there was no new reason. That is his business. If he doesn't break new ground in some way, he doesn't want to make the record public. So he is also inspiring in this way. But yes, no, I think there is something to say for the world of classical music, there, you know, when you are young, you will play some works. You might play, you know, Paganini. But when you, you know, when you are in your 60s, 70s, and 80s, you may choose to play more mature material, and you can use your life experience to bear it. It's not just about, you know, what young fingers can do.

Brig: Well, we need to take a break here. If you just joined us, my guest is Bella Fleck. More after the rest, this is fresh air.

(Soundtrack of Bella Fleck's "Tentacle Dragon (Feat. Billy Strings)")

Brig: This is fresh air. If you have just joined us, our guest is banjo player Bela Fleck, who has released a new album called "My Heart of Bluegrass". I want to talk about "Let Down Your Heart", a documentary directed by your brother Sascha Paladino in 2008. This is about your trip to four African countries-Uganda, Tanzania, Gambia and Mali-I think the point is that you want to bring the banjo back to Africa, because the banjo, whether as an idea or as a kind Real musical instruments were passed to the United States from enslaved Africans. What-how much do we really know the roots of musical instruments?

Flake: I think we know a lot. I mean, we know that it came from West Africa and came here via slave ships-or the knowledge about how to build it was passed on in slave ships, and when it arrived in America, it changed because of the materials here. Then it was changed by people from other cultures.

BRIGER: When you were in Tanzania, you met a famous blind singer and thumb pianist named Anania Ngoliga. It seems that the two of you really hit it off. I just want to know what it’s like to meet someone you can’t really talk to, because you don’t share a language, and you are both — you come from different cultures, in this case, he can’t even see you . But when you play together, there seems to be a real bond.

Flake: Yes, Anania is one of those talented musicians. I mean, if he lived in the West, he would become a superstar-an incredible singer, an incredible instrumentalist, playing this thumbs piano and playing a lot of keys. When we get together, the best thing is how much overlap is really there, because he is one of those people who are easy to play together, is the driving force that excites you and makes everything you do sound good. One of the musicians.

But it is not as unfamiliar to me as some things I heard in some parts of Africa, such as the huge marimba I heard there. I don't know how that happened. Not only that, but I can't hear it myself, and the sound is too loud. But for Ananias, we are in a small room. His instrument is very balanced with mine, and I understand the language he plays. For some reason, I can get there very quickly.

This is a very psychedelic thing, something. It's almost like everything is on a paused chord, or like a nine chord. He grew up in it, which is called pop music. That was a moment in life. Like, I mean, for me, he is also one of the special partners in my life.

BRIGER: Well, let us hear about your cooperation with Anania. This is a song from your 2009 album "Throw Down Your Heart: The Complete Africa Sessions". I think you will read the song "Dunia Haina Wema".

(The original soundtrack of "DUNIA HAINA WEMA" by BELA FLECK and ANANA NGOLIGA)

ANANIA NGOLIGA: (sing in non-English).

BRIGER: It was my guest Bela Fleck and Anania Ngoliga, a thumb piano player and singer. Bella, in the past there were some albums that Western musicians went to other countries to let musicians play on their albums. And some people criticize that there is some exploitation or-at least the album is not culturally sensitive. Do you have any concerns about this? How did you solve these problems?

Fleck: I do have some concerns about this. I have seen this happen to people like Paul Simon. But you know, in most cases here, I am making their music. I did not approve it and call it mine or something similar-not that Paul did it. But I did not misappropriate their music. I play with them and make their music. We can get royalties for all of these. We did not claim that any of these things, you know, are traditional songs or similar things that I arranged in these songs. Therefore, not only can we pay people high amounts of time, but we can also collect royalties for many of them.

BRIGER: Yes, because they have credit for songwriting on the album, right?

Flake: Exactly. Those may be theirs, you know, the works that appeared in their families, or the traditional works of that area. But this is a way we can pay them, and the record has a long tail.

BRIGER: There is an interesting place in the documentary. The great singer Oumou Sangare from Mali said that Bela is a person who may have difficulty expressing himself with his mouth, but can express himself perfectly with his fingers. Is this a fair assessment?

Flake: Well, part of the reason is that I don't speak French.

Flake: But, yes, I think sometimes I am a little shy and afraid to speak. I like to finish work without speaking, you know? But I have become better because I need it, you know? But I think that sometimes some goals can be achieved without speaking. You know, some of them are for people to find their own way, not overly direct people. You know, hearing the story of Miles Davis deliberately not guiding Coltrane left a deep impression on me, you know? He may occasionally feel frustrated with him because he plays for too long, but he doesn't plan to tell him how to play. So sometimes I think I try this method first, generally speaking as little as possible.

And-but I am more confident. Like, I will tell you this. I speak my thoughts to the younger generation more confidently than to Chick Corea or someone older than me. So, as a musician or as a person, it is interesting how age affects this. You know, there are people before you, you are very submissive, and you want to learn from them and be more interested in their ideas. Sometimes, you just feel more confident that you have an answer and you should say it out loud.

BRIGER: So did you know that Chick Corea is sick? Like, the news of his death, at least for people who did not know him, was very shocking. People don't really know that he is sick.

FLECK: Yes, Chick reminded me that he is very sensitive to me in terms of text messages and phone calls. We are in the process of finishing this two-person album, so I sent him editing and mixing stuff, and he is signing it. We went through everything, and then I would write to him, the radio was silent, and I heard nothing. This is very unusual for him. This may be sometime around November. I remember that on Christmas Day, I started to worry about him. I sent him some pictures of children, maybe small movies of children playing, and he would always respond quickly. He sent me a very-you know, he sends a lot of piano emojis and smiles. He is an emoji person. This is normal, you know, things like boys.

Then the next thing, I received a call from his staff in January, and he said, we want you to know that it will be announced soon. The chicken is dead. And I am—I know what went wrong. I have a feeling that something is wrong. In fact, after Christmas, I wrote to Gail and said, how is everything? She said that the chicken himself was injured and he is working hard to recover, so he is a little conceited now. This is what I know. So I think what happened was that he hurt himself, and when they went in to understand what happened, they found cancer.

Brig: Yes. That's-Christmas is also the day that Tony Rice, the other person you dedicated the album to, passed away, right?

Flake: You know, I didn't even think about this. Yes, that's right. Yes. But Cheek was still alive at that time. You know, it's funny, I almost think he's still here. I think about him all the time. I think I want to send this to him. I want him to hear what I am doing. Or, you know, he would love to listen to this bluegrass music. I want to play those things for him. I want to play for Tony. You know, this is really—disappointing. But the strange thing is that I think he is still here. Maybe it was because he died out of sight. You know, they both did it. If our funeral is over, I don't think they will disappear like they do now. You know, this is not the closure we are used to.

BRIGER: Well, Bela Fleck, I thank you very much for coming today.

Flake: Oh, hey, my pleasure. Nice to talk to you. Thanks-by the way, it's an honor to participate in this show. I am a fan.

GROSS: Bela Fleck spoke with Sam Briger, producer of FRESH AIR. Fleck's new album is called "My Bluegrass Heart". After our short break, the rock critic Ken Tuck will review the new album recorded by the late actress Karen Black in the 70s. Her films include "Nashville", "Five Easy Things" and "Easy Rider". This is fresh air.

(The soundtrack of "25 Years ROOTABAGAS" by Matt Wilson’s Big Happy Family

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